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note off command

 
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Heman
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 6:44 am    Post subject: note off command Reply with quote

Thank you for this is program. I recently started experimenting with it, and my first impressions are very positive. Finally these old pc's are not just gathering dust anymore!

I have one question though. I use the Converter in trigger mode and let it transmit a Note On message when the gate opens. I would like to transmit a note off message when the gate closes, but that does not seem to be possible- a velocity=0 message is send instead. As a result I am recording long notes that do not make a sound.

Am I missing something here?

Kind regards,

Herman
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tom roscoe



Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 41
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:42 am    Post subject: Re: note off command Reply with quote

Hello Herman,

yes you're right - in trigger mode, converter generates a note on message with a velocity of zero instead of an actual note off message - according to midi specification, a note on message of zero is equivalent to an actual note off message, and enables a reduction in midi data stream density because of the use of running status (fewer status messages are generated).

This has never been an issue with any of the equipment used to test converter with... what device are you sending the midi data from converter to? it should be able to handle notes in this way (it's definitely within the midi specification), however it's good to know because it's important to me that converter (and all of our tools) provides exceptional performance....

this may be something i should add to converter at some time.... currently i am keeping a prioritized list of additional tweaks and items to add to converter at some point later on in this year ('04)...

currently we're developing several new software tools which are eating up most of my time, but converter is still open for further development as time allows...

incidentally, here's a listing of future improvements which may be incorporated when time allows for work on an update in the future - everyone is welcome to make suggestions which may be added to this list...

- 'function' operand for midi processor, ie. start converter's internal clock when an
incoming midi 'start' msg is recieved etc
- 'function' operand for joystick/mouse ie. button starts clock, retrigger lfo, etc
- network / usb support (?) - no guarantees on this one - how many people would care?
- more optimized midi output (should improve graphics performance as they are low
priority in comparison)
- windows XP detection
- no midi clock output from internal clock when in standby mode
- now, perhaps generate actual 'note off' messages in trigger mode


Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Herman... i appreciate it. Let me know of any further information / opinions you have...

best regards,
tom
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom,

I use Converter in combination with soft synths and record the midi stream with Sonar. This way I can create a nice soundscape with a single guitar. The recorded midi notes have a variable length that is much longer (minutes sometimes) than the time that the gate has been open. Of course you don't hear anything anymore, because the velocity has been set to zero, but these notes limit the useful polyphony.

For the rest, Converter is a very good program: stable, fast, user friendly and musical.

Kind regards,

Herman
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tom roscoe



Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 41
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey again Herman,

ok.... i should implement actual note off message output from trigger mode then... im quite surprised at this difference in midi datastream handling... altho the bulk of the testing work was done using hardware synths.... but yeah, i never ran into this problem before... everything treated note on velocity zero as actual note offs (with no accumulated loss of polyphony)...

thanks for getting back to me on this, very helpful...

hopefully i'll be able to do an update as soon as possible...

best regards,
tom
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arumblack
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey there, i havent used converter yet, but i just got 5 old POS (Point Of Sale, not Piece Of.....), I plan some custom use for some of them, but am gonna try out converter on one. I would think that midi over ethernet would be great for me.(Since you asked if anyone was really interested in that. I believe i even read something about that in electronic musician, i think it was called "Cobranet" or something like that....I'll have to dig out the back issue......
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tom roscoe



Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 41
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey arumblack,

cool thanks for the vote Smile i'll have to take a look for cobranet... its definitely something i'm interested in doing, depending on certain factors...

i'm also planning some sort of quick bookmarking feature for the user interface to make it easier to jump around from menu section to menu section... among a couple other new things...

good luck with the machines!
-tom
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arumblack
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I dug out that back issue, an cobra net was for AUDIO over ethernet, not midi.I'll search around and see what i can come up with. If nothing is there, maybe a new standard can be born. If they can do it with audio, surely it can be done with midi.

by the way, I still havent got to use converter....I need to switch the soundcard ot to a real soundblaster, I've got one, just gotta put it in.
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arumblack
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://standards.ieee.org/announcements/p1639app.html


this could be it.....
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tom roscoe



Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 41
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey arublack,

thanks for the research! much appreciated..

if i do implement midi over ethernet, i definitely want to closely follow whatever emerging standard(s) which are being used....

the other thing i want to look at is midi over usb - may end up being even simpler / easier for the end user? especially since pretty much any computer has usb ports these days.....

take care! good luck with the music,
tom
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arumblack
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no prob on the research, I do it anyway so I may as well share!

Hmmm.....usb could be cool too, but the boxes I am running converter on do not have usb.I'm not saying don't do it, just that some really older hardware doesn't have usb, and the program is aimed at older hardware. Unless you know of an ISA USB card....
I did find some stuff using ethernet, but it all seemed proprietary, and the only free one I found was mac only. I figured the emerging standard would be the one to watch.

Whatever you do, good luck, and thanks for doing it!
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tom roscoe



Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 41
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey again,

yeah usb is more of a '98 / p2 technology, agreed, but it might be useful for those using converter on older pII machines... especially using/generating heavier amounts of data... altho ethernet is pretty much as prevalent now so yeah it might not really matter...

one can probably get pci usb cards.... those would at least work in a pentium 60 or higher...

thanks for the tips!

take care,
tom
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tom roscoe



Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 41
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok i've tracked down a vaguely specific reference on DMIDI...

http://www.plus24.com/ieeep1639/index.php

looks good... i'm glad there's an open standard...


-tom
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ArumBlack



Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 3
Location: Linden VA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome stuff, I'll pass this along to some others that may be interested.
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tom roscoe



Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 41
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2004 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey Herman,

just wanted to mention that version 1.3 now implements the ability to use discrete note on / note off messages for trigger mode... as well as various other things...

take care,
tom
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